Marathoning a series as big as this, something was bound to happen...

[bigzam]

Mundane, was it? You'll forgive me if I find this entire existence to be... odd. I remember everything very vividly... I remember dying. And to find out that Zeon was defeated time and time again is... rather disconcerting.

I suppose I will have to take comfort in the fact that Mineva lived through the conflict...

Comments

[hitlerofzeon]

What an unexpected surprise to see you again, Dozle. I had come to believe that I was to be the only specter of our family and nation to hunt this place. Though I do hope Kycilia won't be following after you...

[bigzam]

Gihren.

[He's not exactly... happy to see his brother, but at the same time, he's glad to see a face he can at least trust somewhat.]

Considering everything, I doubt we'll see our sister in this place... I... heard of how she betrayed you...

[hitlerofzeon]

Oh, She did far more than betrayed me.... She destroyed everything we ever built with Zeon! We lost the war because of her! If not for her and her followers self-sabotage the war effort to build their own power base, we could have stayed masters of the Earth! We could have destroyed the Trojan Horse and the Gundam before they ever reached space if her lap-dog M'Quve hadn't denied your man, Ral the proper resources for it! It's all because of her and Char Aznable or should I say Casval Rem Deikun! We should had him executed for Garma's death... and I should have dealt with Kycilia years ago, right after what she did to Sasro...

[bigzam]

There are a lot of things we could have done differently. But we didn't. Zeon will live on, even without us. We have to live with the choices we made, or at least face the consequences of them.

It's a shame our choices in battle earned us defeat, but when we had to start planning around our own siblings as if they were an unspoken enemy, what chance did we have? What Kycilia did is inexcusable. ...But so to is firing the Solar Ray on father's ship.

[hitlerofzeon]

[At this comment, Gihern's face darkens and his voice changes from loud ranting rage into a calm and quiet fury that was filled with an even deadlier intensity behind it]

It had to be done. Father was going to betray everything the Principality ever accomplished and stood for with his weakness of will. He would have turned Side 3 back in a mere colony of the Federation. The brutal truth of the matter is our family with the exception of Garma, achieved the dream of absolute power by claiming over the dead bodies of enemy and ally alike.

On our heads as you know, are the deaths of several billion people whose colonies our forces gassed and were used for Operation British or were destroyed in fleet battles like Loum. Never mind the fact that they were all worthless scum who deserved death for siding with our oppressors over the Chosen People. Once you commit yourself to such a cause, you must see it to the end, no matter what the cost. We had waded through too much blood to simply stop and give in. Our father, Degwin Zabi was going to make a mockery out of not only yours and Garma's death, but also that of our great founder, Zeon Deikun and every soldier who gave their life for our ideals. I did it for all of you.

And yes... Zeon will live on. My loyal Admiral Delaz and Commander Gato are still out there and then there is Glemy...

[bigzam]

Absolute power was not our dream, Gihren! We were fighting for independence from a system that treated us like criminals! Regardless of what father may or may not have agreed to during that summit, that is no excuse to turn on him!

I agree that after Operation British, it would have been an insult to those who died to not see it through to the end, but they were not worthless animals that deserved death. They were people, Gihren. They had their own families that we took them from. Don't you dare claim to have done anything for me, Gihren. What you did to Garma's funeral... turning what should have been a moment for our family to grieve in private into a propaganda spectacle... there's no doubt in my mind the only person you did anything for is yourself.

Zeon will live on, in the heart of every Spacenoid that's ever been downtrodden by the Federation. Not just two men, brother.

[donttouchthequbeley]

You.

[She may not have met the man, but oh did she recognize Zeon people.]

[bigzam]

It would seem my name and reputation has proceeded me quite a bit. I apologize that I do not recognize you, miss.

[donttouchthequbeley]

Does the name Glemy Toto ring a bell? That would be my father.

[bigzam]

One of Gihren's men, if I remember correctly...

What is your name?

[donttouchthequbeley]

Puru Two, a clone of Elpeo Puru, designed to take Zeon away from Haman Karn.

You can probably tell there was much conflict by now, and I'm a product of those years of chaos.

[Yeah, she doesn't sound pleased or anything. Just...anger is certainly in her voice. She certainly had a lot of hatred for a lot of things, not just Zeon.]

[bigzam]

I see.

[He's silent for a moment. Haman was put in charge of caring for Mineva, after all... but really... a clone? How low would Gihren's men sink.]

I know this won't mean much coming from me, but I am sorry you had to endure that. A war using children isn't one I approve of... even less so when they are not given a choice.

[He sighs a bit.] It pains me to see just how far Zeon has strayed from its original ideals.

[After all, the promise of Spacenoid independence was what made all the power grabs worth it in the end to Dozle. The ends justified the means, or so he kept telling himself. This though... this was too far.]

[donttouchthequbeley]

[He was right. It didn't mean much...but she had expected worse words. Maybe because a lot of people in Zeon made her sick. Earth Federation was no different, barring Judau and his group. Those were the only ones she could bring herself to care for.]

The only comfort to my own death was that Glemy met his own end too.

Time for old to meet new!

[kill_all_vagans]

It could've been worse. Zeon could've won.

The Vagans might've done a lot of bad things, but one thing you could always count on them not to do is try dropping colonies on Earth. That was practically Zeon's calling card, wasn't it?

Woo~!

[bigzam]

And the Federation was better, was it? Treating every spacenoid to live in the colonies like indentured servants!? We were treated like criminals from the cradle to the grave by a government that used fear and intimidation to keep us cowed. Once we stood up for ourselves, the Federation forced our hand.

It is regrettable, but if we were to achieve independence from the Earth, it had to be done. The Federation killed just as many of our own civilians as we did theirs. But I doubt the history books tell of the slogans the Federation troops used to promote violence toward civilians, to dehumanize us, and treat is like livestock.

Look back at any war throughout human history and you will see atrocities on all sides, some even lauded as heroic. I do not ask you to like or forgive me, but take a good look at both sides and tell me Zeon was truly the monster history claims it is.

[kill_all_vagans]

It was! And don't pretend you're some noble martyr acting for the greater good!

Side 3 had been independent for over twenty years before Zeon's war with the Federation, and when Side 6 became independent nobody there acted like the Federation forced their hand in all of this! Side 3 was even allowed to stay autonomous after their surrender.

Can you really say that Zeon would've been as merciful to everyone else if they'd come out the victors of the One Year War?

[bigzam]

In a system that appointed leaders without the consent of those they governed, how can you claim anything was truly free of the Federation!? Side 3 was nothing more than a puppet of the Earth, independent in name only!

All my father wanted was a world where the Spacenoids were free to govern themselves, as was right!

[Gihren and Kycilia? ...Probably not so much.]

[kill_all_vagans]

And look where that fighting spirit got Zeon. Delaz was exploited to give birth to the Titans, making things even worse for Spacenoids.

The Federation does have blood on its hands, I'm no stranger to that. Good men from my own setting killed because they were going to expose the truth of corruption... But in my own world I changed that and saw that traitors were dealt with.

[bigzam]

The Titans were only the next in a long list of things the Federation did to keep the people of space "in their place."

When it is all said and done, there is no such thing as an absolute good or evil. The Federation is just as guilty for wiping out half of humanity as Zeon, if not more so. Had the colonies not been forcibly tied to the Earth's rule, the One Year War would never have happened.

[kill_all_vagans]

Is this just a thing monsters say when they're called out on their actions then? Blaming the other side for forcing you to go to such poorly-planned extremes? Hiding behind the excuse of "there's no such thing as an absolute evil, but take our word on other side objectively being worse than us"?

(For what it's worth I'm enjoying this butting of heads greatly. AGE wasn't good as a whole, but I still think Flit was a great character and he never got into a good ideological clash in his home series.)

[bigzam]

All I know are the facts of the matter. If the Federation hadn't exercised the level of control that they did, Zeon would never have had the reason to go to war. I make no excuses regarding the ethics of dropping a colony. I make no claim to being better than anyone. I can only fight for the cause I believe is right, and Zeon is that cause.

[OOC: Glad you're enjoying it! :3 I'm currently marathoning the ENTIRE Universal Century, and haven't gotten through MSG yet, but... Dozle always just kinda spoke to me. :D I hope I can do the big lug some justice.]

[kill_all_vagans]

If that's how you see it and you're willing to face the consequences of it... fine.

I was never one to give enemies a second chance anyways.

(You're doing a great job so far. Be sure to read at least the original Crossbone manga too -it's really great and gives Seabook more time to shine- and give G-Savior a chance if you're in the mood for some riffing material.

[bigzam]

I have never made any claims to be a savior of mankind, just a man fighting for a future where his daughter could live free of oppression.

I do not need your pity or redemption. I have made peace with the legacy of the Zabi family, and have no regrets!

[OOC: Thanks. ^_^ It's encouraging to know I'm not being too melodramatic or something with him. And yes, Crossbone and G-Savior are definitely on my list of things to look into once I'm done with the UC timeline. :3]

I love that you had a Zaku icon at the ready. This is fate.

[kill_all_vagans]

And I'll be looking past my family... to a world in need of a savior! More than my own family, I'll take on the burden of protecting humanity.

I'll already be dedicating my life to opposing the Vagans. If I must, I'll fight against Zeon as well. (Which can happen in the PSP AGE game's bonus missions but blargh was that game crap!)

(Don't worry, it's hard to make Dozle too melodramatic. The guy's final moments are testament that Dozle can never be too dramatic. And don't forget Reconguista in G either! Supposedly it takes place in the far-future of UC after they adopt a new calender.)